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Subject: "Cuba is emphatically siding with the U.S. at this time against terrorism. Yet, Cuba remains on the list of states that sponsor terrorism. What do you think is true?"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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POLL: Cuba is emphatically siding with the U.S. at this time against terrorism. Yet, Cuba remains on the list of states that sponsor terrorism. What do you think is true?
Posted by EdgarV on Sep-18-01, 02:21 PM PST
Result after a total of 507 votes

Cuba is and always has been a sponsor and/or supporter or terrorism. 352 votes, 69% Vote for this choice
Cuba surely was at one time, but not any more. 30 votes, 5% Vote for this choice
Cuba has expressed solidarity with liberation movements only 11 votes, 2% Vote for this choice
The truth about Cuba is being twisted by its critics. 20 votes, 3% Vote for this choice
Cuba is the victim of an intense American smear campaign. 94 votes, 18% Vote for this choice
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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
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     RE: Terrorism Alejandro Mar-25-04 5
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Senor Llera
Guest
Oct-10-02, 06:30 AM (PST)
 
1. "Terrorism"
In response to message #0
 
   On September 11, 2001, the US State Department had Cuba on its list of terrorist states but did NOT have Afghanistan! So that should be a pretty good indicator of how interested the State Dep. is in making political propaganda rather than identifying serious terrorist threats.

They base this decision largely because Cuba "harbors" terrorists. However, the United States also harbors terrorists as anyone vaguely familar with Cuban American extremist groups can tell you. For example, look up Orlando Bosch, a terrorist by any definition of the word, blew up a Cubana Airlines Planes that killed 76 people, shot a bazooka at a Polish ship that was trading with Cuba, and dozens of bombings and terrorist attacks. But thanks to the prodding of the Cuban American National Foundation (which has funded and supported its fair share of Cuban American terrorists) , Jeb Bush, and Reptilian Congresswoman, Ileana Ros Lehtinen, whose claim to fame was being the only member of the House of Rep. to vote against food and medicine to Cuba after a natural disaster had struck the island. after a natural disaster had struck the island, President George Bush the Elder pardoned Bosch.

Read more about the charges against Cuba here:
http://www.cubamer.org/pr_eng.htm

"Moreover, in off-the-record remarks, State Department officials have acknowledged that there is no credible evidence that any of these groups - not the Basques, the U.S. fugitives or any others - are mounting terrorist actions from Cuba."

Don't forget Operation Mongoose and Operation Northwoods, CIA terrorist operations in Cuba that ranged from assasination attempts (Castro has survived reportedly 600 assasination attempts.), economic warfare (the bombing of a factory in 1961 killed 400 Cubans), bombings of sugar fields, and encouraging Cubans to commit acts of violence against the government, not to mention being "less than enthusiastic" about prosecuting Cuban American terrorists. The allegations of Biological and Chemical warfare on Cuba must be taken seriously as William Blum reports (link at bottom of post) -

"in 1984, a Cuban exile on trial in New York testified that in the latter part of 1980 a ship travelled from Florida to Cuba with a mission to carry some germs to introduce them in Cuba to be used against the Soviets and against the Cuban economy, to begin what was called chemical war, which later on produced results that were not what we had expected, because we thought that it was going to be used against the Soviet forces, and it was used against our own people,
and with that we did not agree.{27}"


Read more about Orlando Bosch, Omega 7 (designated by the FBI in 1980 as "the most dangerous terrorist organization in the United States.", Alpha 66, Comandos L (which announced that the war on Fidel Castro would start by choosing to make terrorist attacks against such brave and honorable targets like hotels, beaches, and travel agencies.) and others at:

http://members.aol.com/bblum6/cuba.htm (William Blum's in depth account of terrorism on Cuba with sources cited, Very Highly Recommended!)

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1992/58/58p15.htm

http://www.zmag.org/Sustainers/content/2002-06/06landau.cfm

(And by the way, if you've never even heard about US, CIA or Cuban American terrorism on Cuba, don't worry! I never did either before I started looking for it. Before that I just believed what the media Old Guard of the Cu. Am. community were saying about how Castro's fear of the U.S. and Miami based terrorism is just strange paranoia, I was in for a rude awakening and so will many readers I imagine.)

The following are articles not particularly relevant to terrorism, but very good articles on Cuba the Miami crowd certainly won't want to read:

http://www.zmag.org/Sustainers/content/2001-11/01franklin.cfm

http://www.zmag.org/ZSustainers/ZDaily/2000-02/08naiman.htm


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Alejandro
Guest
Mar-25-04, 05:10 AM (PST)
 
5. "RE: Terrorism"
In response to message #1
 
   I understand the things the United States has done, or not done for terrorist around the world, but that does not mean that Cuba should not be in that infamous list. I tell you, Cuba is a terrorist state, it develops biological weapons, it harbors and sponsor terrorist groups, one of them being La Farc of Colombia, even providing trainning for them on the island. Come on, how can you say these things, Have you lived in Cuba to even know what's really going on?, I sure have, and it opened my eyes to the lies and to the feeling of helplessness it's people have. The Cuban government is a corrupt, dictatoral regime, and no one with a want of freedom and democracy in their bones should support or agree with such governments.


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Valmar
Guest
May-20-04, 12:40 PM (PST)
 
6. "RE: Terrorism"
In response to message #5
 
   Like all governments the Cuban government has been responsible for some questionable activities. Never having had the oppoutunity to travel to Cuba myself I can not say for sure, but I beleive Castro's Cuba has made vast improvements since the days of american supported tyrants such as Batista. Although the Cuban government has its problems they at least make some attempt to care for their people, unlike the United States government which leaves corrupt buisnesses in control of its economy and healthcare system...


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Mevelyn
Guest
Mar-23-03, 05:34 AM (PST)
 
2. "This article might help your decision"
In response to message #0
 
   Anita Snow (AP) reports (see below foot, note 1, from Miami Herald) on Castro's campaign to be removed from US State Department terror list omits many critical matters.

First the long list of 40 years of worldwide terror related action by Castro --from Ireland to Vietnam, from Sri Lanka to Spain and Algeria and from Angola to Argentina, Peru, Bolivia, Dominican Republic, Chile and Uruguay,-- is not mentioned. Naturally Castro's support for the old Machetero terror in mainland US and on Cuba's "sister island" of Puerto Rico is also forgotten, all though there were a number of violent deaths in bankrobberies and machine gunnings of US sailors.

However, the central drum beat of the Castro government, the very unfortunate, but 25 year old, airliner bombing of a Cubana plane is given prominence in the article. And yet all the terror activity of the Cuban directed and supported bloody terror in Venezuela at the time is not mentioned, even though the those found guilty of this airline attack were Venezuelan. The Bosch case is dismissed as an acquital after eleven years of imprisonment, while the reality is that Bosch was found innocent several times and still held prisoner until, if memory serves, he escaped.

The much more recent shoot down of unarmed planes of the Brothers to Rescue over international waters, although there is now a judicial process against Castro in Belgium for this matter, does not get a line. This process which asks for the extradition for terror crimes of Castro to the European Union is also reported in the Nuevo Herald (Miami Heralds's Spanish language sister publication, see footnote 2)

The recent planned visit to Cuba by IRA leader Gerry Adams is of course not mentioned, as are Adam's statements to the effect of his "debts" to Castro.

The Cuban government support for the growing war of the Colombian narco-guerrillas is diminished in this report even though Cuba offers, support, safe haven and medical treatment on the island for wounded guerrillas. The recent kidnapping and murder of a prominent Colombian woman by these guerrillas, who supposedly are negotiating with the Colombian government, is not mentioned either.

Anita Snow states:

"U.S. officials concede there is no evidence Cuba has sponsored specific terror acts in recent years. The nation remains on the list for three reasons: U.S. fugitives on the island, Cuba's contacts with Colombian guerrilla groups, and several Basque separatists who are in the country."

However, Ms Snow neglects the fact that Castro spy Ana Belen Montes, was in charge until very recently of the Cuba desk of the US Defense Intelligence Agency and is widely believed to not only have provided intelligence to the Cuban government, but also to have distorted in Castro's favor official US press briefings and evaluations of Castro's danger and intent of harm to the US.

However, one must note in Anita Snow's favor that reporting on such things is very difficult in Castro's police state....

And one must look at this from the good side, Castro is really, really scared, and perhaps that is what Ms Snow is telling us......


Larry Daley
Corvallis, OR


footnote 1. From Miami Herald
Posted at 6:47 a.m. EDT Friday, October 5, 2001

Cuba recalls own terror, resents place on U.S. terrorism list
By ANITA SNOW
Associated Press Writer


HAVANA -- (AP) -- The black and white photographs of people in mourning bear testimony to what Cubans view as the deadliest act of terrorism committed against their country -- an airliner bombing that killed 73 people.

One image on display at the Interior Ministry Museum shows teen-agers filing past caskets draped with Cuban flags. Others show an older man comforting his sobbing wife, and hundreds of thousands crowding Havana's Revolution Plaza to remember the victims killed 25 years ago this week.

``We have an explosion aboard, we are descending immediately!'' reads the transcript of the pilot's last words with the control tower in Seawell, Barbados. ``Seawell, CU-455, we are requesting immediate landing... . We have a total emergency!''

After last month's terror attacks in the United States, Cubans recalled their own experience with terror on Oct. 6, 1976, when a bomb planted by opponents of Fidel Castro's government blew up the Cubana de Aviacion airliner.

The government has called a rally for the anniversary on Saturday to remember those who died.

Several government officials were among the 57 Cuban victims. But most were civilians, including members of the island's fencing team. Five Koreans and 11 citizens of the South American nation of Guyana also died.

After the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the government sponsored a rally to express solidarity with Americans. It also condemned the attacks but added: ``It is not possible for our people to forget that for more than 40 years they have been the victim of just such actions promoted from the same American soil.''

Few Cubans know their country remains on the U.S. State Department's terrorism watch list with six other nations: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, North Korea and Sudan.

Cuba deeply resents being on the list, especially because it says it stopped actively supporting armed struggle in Latin America and elsewhere more than a decade ago. Earlier, Cuba did provide training, arms and funding to leftist rebels around the world.

``Our country speaks with total moral authority in saying that it would never undertake a terrorist act,'' Cuba's U.N. Ambassador Bruno Rodriguez told United Nations members Monday.

U.S. officials concede there is no evidence Cuba has sponsored specific terror acts in recent years. The nation remains on the list for three reasons: U.S. fugitives on the island, Cuba's contacts with Colombian guerrilla groups, and several Basque separatists who are in the country.

``When Cuba is proclaimed a terrorist state with this type of argument it really hurts the credibility of the American government,'' Cuban Foreign Minister Felipe Perez Roque earlier this year told Radio Progreso, a moderate Cuban-American station in Miami.

Perez Roque said both the presence of Basque separatists on the island and Cuba's contacts with Colombian rebels were approved by the Spanish and Colombian governments. Cuba has sponsored meetings between Colombian representatives and guerrillas as part of that nation's peace process.

In the radio interview, Perez Roque didn't talk about the several dozen American fugitives living in Cuba. But in the past, Cuban officials have noted the country has no extradition treaty with the United States, which severed diplomatic relations in 1961.

The American fugitives include former Black Panther Joanne Chesimard, who lives here under the name Assata Shakur. She was convicted in 1977 of killing a New Jersey state trooper.

Cuba has its own problems trying to extradite people it wants to try for terrorism.

Panama earlier this year refused Havana's request to extradite over Cuban-born Luis Posada Carriles, 72, for trial in the airliner attack and a series of bombings in 1997 on tourist sites. Posada Carriles has denied any role in the airliner attack but has admitted involvement in the bombings.

He has been jailed since Nov. 17 in Panama, where he was arrested after Castro arrived there for a regional summit and declared that his old nemesis was in the country plotting to kill him.

Two Venezuelan men were convicted in the jetliner bombing and each sentenced to 20 years imprisonment in Venezuela. A fourth man, Cuban exile Orlando Bosch, spent 11 years behind bars in Venezuela during a lengthy judicial process but was ultimately acquitted.

footnote 2.
European Union suit requesting extradition of Castro for terror crimes.

Publicado el viernes, 5 de octubre de 2001 en El Nuevo Herald

Belgica recibe demanda colectiva contra Castro Consideran la extradicin del gobernante cubano si se lleva a cabo el proceso

ELISA SANTAFE / AFP
BRUSELAS


Una demanda fue interpuesta ayer ante la justicia belga contra el gobernante cubano, Fidel Castro, por crimenes contra la humanidad, en un momento en que Belgica --actual presidente de la Union Europea (UE)-- impulsa un dialogo politico con la isla.

Un grupo de nueve cubanos, siete residentes en Estados Unidos y dos en Belgica, presento ante la justicia belga una querella colectiva basandose en una ley belga de competencia universal, por la que el lider cubano podra ser condenado a entre 20 y 30 años.

Jose Basulto, Eugenio de Sosa y Marcelino Feal presentaron ayer la demanda en el Palacio de Justicia de Bruselas junto con su abogado belga, Paul Sher, y el estadounidense, Larry Klayman.

Los querellantes se basan en la ley belga de 1993 --ampliada en 1999-- que atribuye competencia universal a la justicia de ese pais por crimenes de guerra, genocidio y crimenes contra la humanidad, independientemente del lugar donde se cometieron y las nacionalidades y lugares de residencia de las victimas y los acusados.

Con base en esta ley han sido demandados varios dirigentes de distintos pases, entre ellos el ex dictador chileno Augusto Pinochet y el actual primer ministro israel, Ariel Sharon.

``Espero encontrar justicia aqu en Europa y tambien en Estados Unidos'', donde se lleva a cabo un proceso, declaro Basulto, presidente de Hermanos al Rescate (Brothers to the Rescue), quien sobrevivio en 1996 a un ataque de aviones de Cuba contra tres aparatos de su asociacion. En el incidente murieron cuatro personas.

``Vamos a poner a Fidel Castro donde debera estar'', asegura Eugenio Sosa Chabau, empresario y editor opositor al regimen de Castro, que fue torturado en prision entre 1960 y 1980.

El medico de 69 años, Marcelino Feal, prisionero politico durante 17 años, se manifesto ``orgulloso de estar en un pais que tradicionalmente respeta la libertad y la justicia''.

Los otros querellantes son la organizacion Hermanos al rescate, Sergio Perodin, Maria Victoria Garcia, Eva Barba y dos cubanos residentes en Belgica cuyos nombres no fueron facilitados por seguridad.

Perodín y García sobrevivieron el 13 de julio de 1994 al hundimiento, a manos de barcos del gobierno cubano, de la embarcacin en la que se dirigan a Florida. En la accion murieron 41 personas, entre ellas el hijo y la esposa de Perodin, y 14 familiares de Garcia. La justicia belga se pronunciar ``en los proximos das'' sobre la admisibilidad de la querella y, en caso positivo, nombrara a un juez de instruccion. Klayman expreso su ``confianza en la justicia belga, que es independiente del gobierno''. Si se lleva a cabo el proceso, se ``evitar que Castro viaje a Europa durante este tiempo'', segn Klayman, que consider ``posible que Castro pudiera ser extraditado a la UE''. El abogado estimo que tanto en Europa como en Estados Unidos hay una ``falta de informacion'' sobre las violaciones de derechos humanos en Cuba y que la UE hace ``un juicio erroneo'' de la situacion, aunque ``obviamente el poder judicial har un juicio diferente''.


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dddddd
Guest
Mar-23-03, 06:17 AM (PST)
 
3. "Some INFO"
In response to message #0
 
   The September 11 terrorist attacks have focused America's attention on the Middle East, but a potential source of danger exists closer to home in Latin America. For decades, the combination of corrupt government, poor infrastructure and spotty public security in many Latin American countries has made it easy for foreign and domestic terrorists to gain a foothold. As a result, one-third of the terrorist organizations operating worldwide, including one linked to Osama bin Laden, are located or operate in Latin America.

Colombia's insurgent rebel groups are linked to international drug and arms traffickers spread throughout the hemisphere and across the Atlantic, with a combined income exceeding the resources of Saudi terrorist Osama bin Laden.
In Paraguay, the contraband market is larger than the formal economy, and the country hosts groups linked to the Egyptian Islamic Group, the Iranian-backed Hezbollah and the pro-Palestinian Hamas.
In Mexico, leftist insurgency groups and the Arellano- Felix drug cartel have formed alliances with Colombian rebels, and have expanded their operations along the U.S.- Mexican border and abroad.
In addition to these terrorist organizations, some governments in the region are active sponsors of terrorist causes:

Cuba -- a supporter of international terrorists since the 1960s -- maintains close ties to other state sponsors like Libya and Iran, and has reportedly developed the capability to manufacture biological warfare agents.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez has established fraternal relations with Latin American guerrillas and maintains close ties to Saddam Hussein and Fidel Castro.

So far, most of the violence committed by these groups has been directed within the region. But the region's fragile democracies and market economies are hardly able to contain threats against themselves, much less keep them from spilling across their borders.


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xyz
Guest
Mar-23-03, 06:25 AM (PST)
 
4. "MORE INFO"
In response to message #0
 
   La alusión que hiciera el presidente Bush a Irán, Irak y Corea del Norte como miembros de un ''eje malévolo'' que promueve el terrorismo ha causado una reacción temblorosa entre algunos europeos y círculos liberales americanos. Es evidente que, para esa gente, el 9/11 es un episodio puntual y que Estados Unidos debe conformarse con el apoyo que tuvo la campaña altamente exitosa para desmantelar el régimen talibán en Afganistán y su aliado terrorista islámico Al Qaida.

Terminada esa fase del conflicto, esa gente opina que el mundo debe regresar al status quo ante. Aquí no ha pasado nada. Pero la amenaza terrorista ni empezó ni termina en Afganistán o con Bin Laden. Por eso, hace bien el presidente Bush en preparar al pueblo americano para una lucha más amplia y larga, aun si tiene que hacerlo solo.

El terrorismo islámico es una manifestación de una táctica de lucha típica de contendientes débiles ante oponentes poderosos. Los fanáticos islámicos están congelados en el tiempo; ven con pánico el impacto corrosivo en sus anquilosadas sociedades de la modernización que simboliza Estados Unidos. Lo mismo ocurre con el izquierdismo fanático que no acepta la derrota del comunismo por la democracia y el capitalismo. Por eso mucha gente de izquierda en América Latina recibió con beneplácito el ataque del 9/11. Ninguna más contenta que la ilustre ''abuelita'' de la Plaza de Mayo, Hebe Pastor de Bonafini, quien, desde La Habana donde vive su hija, expresó su satisfacción por el bestial acto; además de haber dado apoyo antes al terrorismo de los etarras.

En las últimas décadas, se legitimó el uso de tácticas terroristas para perseguir fines políticos ya fueran de origen religioso o ideológico. De ahí surgieron en los sesenta y los setenta alianzas extrañas entre la OLP, el IRA y la ETA, con los diversos grupos terroristas que promovió Fidel Castro en las Américas. Vladimir Ilich Ramírez, el notorio Chacal, Carlos, de origen venezolano y comunista, hizo su carrera terrorista en Europa con fuerte apoyo de Fidel, de la OLP y de Siria. Ahora es apoyado por el presidente Chávez, quien nada menos que pretende se le libere de la cárcel francesa donde sirve sentencia por sus crímenes.

En el caso de Colombia, tres miembros del IRA han sido arrestados al salir de la zona de despeje. Habían terminado su misión de asesoramiento y adiestramiento de las FARC en terrorismo urbano; todo coordinado desde La Habana por la representación del IRA para América Latina con el beneplácito de Castro. Todos estos episodios son meras señales de la amplísima madeja detrás del ''eje malévolo'', que no se circunscribe solamente a los países mencionados por el presidente Bush.

Hay un aspecto del terrorismo contemporáneo esencial en esa selección, la escalada en su dimensión. Desde la miniaturización de armas atómicas hasta el uso de armas cibernéticas y biotecnológicas, el desarrollo de armas de destrucción masiva ha hecho posible ataques terroristas de una escala no prevista antes y por potencias de menor escala, lo que ha llevado a una nueva escuela de estudios estratégicos: las amenazas asimétricas. A resultas de la coincidencia del 9/11 con la diseminación por correo del ánthrax, el pueblo americano y sus gobernantes han despertado ante la terrible amenaza asimétrica que el terrorismo moderno representa. Los países del eje malévolo desarrollan armas de destrucción masiva. Por eso se les seleccionó.

La declaración de guerra del presidente Bush al terrorismo tiene dos corolarios: uno, terminó la etapa en que es legítimo recurrir a tácticas terroristas; y, dos, no se pueden excluir acciones preventivas para evitar actos terroristas masivos. Las respuestas reactivas al terrorismo han dejado de ser adecuadas. Hay que tomar medidas preventivas. Yasser Arafat ha sido avisado de que, en la nueva era, no es legítimo usar el terrorismo como medio de lucha. Igual ha ocurrido con los independentistas de Cachemira, a quienes apoyaba Pakistán. La política dual de la monarquía saudita, de aliado americano y promotor bajo cuerdas del fanatismo islámico, es inaceptable. Los miembros del eje malévolo encaran posibles acciones preventivas si prosiguen en desarrollar armas de destrucción masiva.

En las Américas, Colombia y Venezuela están empezando a recibir atención dentro de este nuevo contexto. En Colombia mueren más personas anualmente víctimas del terrorismo que las que murieron en los ataques de 9/11. No es posible hablar de una nueva doctrina mundial de repudio al terrorismo e ignorar la tragedia que agobia a Colombia. Ni tampoco que líderes como el presidente Chávez estén enviando municiones a las FARC, como se reveló recientemente, al mismo tiempo que pretende tener relaciones normales con el gobierno de Colombia.

¡Ah!, y por poco se me olvida. El bravucón que en mayo del 2001 alardeó en Teherán de que ''Irán y Cuba podían poner de rodillas al imperio'', ahora trata de esconderse debajo de la cama, haciendo esfuerzos patéticos por disfrazarse de enemigo del terrorismo. Pero no engaña a nadie. Por eso, Lula lo veta de participar en el Foro Social de Porto Alegre y Putin le cierra la base de Lourdes, mientras Bush espera medidas más tangibles que sus acciones superficiales por distanciarse del terrorismo. La hora de las definiciones en cuanto a la guerra contra el terrorismo no se limita al eje malévolo. Está llegando a las Américas. Y Fidel parece estar poniendo sus barbas en remojo. Estén alertas, porque en cualquier momento se las afeita.


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Greece
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Apr-05-05, 04:20 PM (PST)
 
7. "RE: MORE INFO"
In response to message #4
 
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I was there and there is povetry (only Fidel is responsible for this?) and a lot of police but come on -stop finding sceletons in every closet


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Carlos
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May-14-05, 04:48 AM (PST)
 
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In response to message #7
 
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cubanamerican
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May-28-05, 03:33 PM (PST)
 
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In response to message #8
 
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Frank
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Dec-29-05, 12:12 PM (PST)
 
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In response to message #7
 
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Dec-11-06, 10:17 AM (PST)
 
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Dec-12-06, 02:50 AM (PST)
 
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Dec-12-06, 12:51 PM (PST)
 
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Dec-12-06, 08:26 PM (PST)
 
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Dec-13-06, 05:40 AM (PST)
 
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samgamge
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Dec-16-06, 10:45 AM (PST)
 
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qhjMMaQK
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Dec-16-06, 12:49 PM (PST)
 
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