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Subject: "Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"

Conferences Cuba: Rogue State or U.S. Fall Guy? Topic #3
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EdgarV
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Sep-18-01, 03:46 PM (PST)

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"Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"

Did you read the articles in the Current Events section? Cuba expresses solidarity with the U.S. against terrorism on the one hand. On the other, it is on the U.S. State Department list of states sponsoring, aiding or abetting international terrorism!

Read for yourself: (Click, read, hit your back button)

Cuba Expresses Sympathy.. <http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/apnews/stories/091401/D7EHC3EO1.html>

Cuba Sponsors Terrorism... <http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/01050102.htm>

What is the truth behind these two divergent views? Inflammatory rhetoric aside, what do we really know? Can you point us to credible, reliable sources of information? The implications one way or another are staggering! Your views, please...

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Subject	Author	Message Date	ID
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	EKA	Sep-18-01	1
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Ema	Sep-18-01	2
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	399can	Sep-18-01	3
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	balserita	Dec-08-01	7
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Ahora!	Sep-19-01	4
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	puchi	Sep-21-01	5
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	docmercury	Dec-29-01	9
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	docmercury	Jan-11-02	11
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Esteban	Sep-25-01	6
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	docmercury	Dec-29-01	8
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	ressan setnom	Jan-10-02	10
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	DavidC	Mar-06-02	12
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Lucinda	Mar-09-02	13
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	davidc	Mar-14-02	14
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Lucinda	Mar-17-02	17
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Dean	Mar-02-03	25
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	David C	May-06-03	26
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	MariaG	Mar-16-02	15
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Enrique E.	Mar-16-02	16
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Lucinda	Mar-17-02	18
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	DavidC	Mar-18-02	19
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Lucinda	Apr-11-02	20
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	davidc	Apr-12-02	21
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Lucinda	Apr-14-02	22
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	davidc	Apr-17-02	23
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Lucinda	Apr-18-02	24
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	TBN	Sep-09-03	28
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	TBN	Sep-09-03	27
RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?	Alex	Aug-31-06	29

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EKA

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Sep-18-01, 04:15 PM (PST)

1. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #0

Fidel is just trying to pull his usual old tricks. He's a wily crafty hijo de xxxx that thinks he can pull it off again. I hope Colin Powell reveals to the world what the state department has always known about Fidel and his band of terrorists and uses this occasion to get rid of him once and for all. It is time to get rid of terrorist sponsors and the number one terrorist in our hemisphere.

Read for yourselvs

<http://www.geocities.com/policraticus/cubaterror/>

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Ema
Member since Sep-18-01
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Sep-18-01, 04:43 PM (PST)

2. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #0

There's always more than one point of view. i think its up to the U.S. to stop this vicious circle.

<http://burn.ucsd.edu/archives/raza/1997.07/msg00050.html>

thanks

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399can
Member since Sep-18-01
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Sep-18-01, 09:57 PM (PST)

3. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #2

What makes me sick is people who think that the truth is always somewhere in the middle. Sometimes one side is right and the other is wrong. Castro is wrong plain and simple. He is not a hero or just an old harmless father figure to an island full of grateful cigar and samba lovers. He kills people and rules the rest with an iron fist, all the while looking grandfatherly to stupid Americans who will do anything for a photo op with this sick terror monger.

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balserita

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Dec-08-01, 01:31 AM (PST)

7. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #3

Your answer reflects some of the problem however.
You are saying you feel "sick" that people are saying the answer is somewhere in the middle. In other words, you are arguing for a black or white view of the world. Both sides of the straits are bogged down in this kind of fundamentalist thinking. Furthermore, it seems to me that they are bogged down in a competition for who is the biggest victim (and therefore is right to vicitmize in return).

Come on. The answer IS somewhere in the middle. If you are on either pole on this you are blinding yourself to the fact the BOTH sides raise legitimate points. Is the solution to dictatorship on the island what we have seen in Miami? Years of terrorism against yourselves, intolerance of other points of view. Emotional stagnation.

There is lots of healing that needs to be done on both sides. Getting past the polemics is one place to start.

That being said, as a New Yorker, I really resented the fact that the Cuban government could not give us our day of pain without trying to drive home the point that it has also been victimized. We deserved ALL of the sympathy that day. This victim consciousness will NEVER get anybody ANYWHERE.

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Ahora!

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Sep-19-01, 08:01 AM (PST)

4. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #0

Castro overplayed his hand. He's going down now with the rest of his friends from Afganistan, Iraq, and Iran! Goodbye Fidel. Good ridance!

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puchi
Member since Sep-21-01
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Sep-21-01, 01:13 PM (PST)

5. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #4

President Bush made it clear tonight. Castro had better open his doors or the Marines will come knocking!

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docmercury
Member since Dec-29-01
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Dec-29-01, 01:04 PM (PST)

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9. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #5

Castro and Cuba also helped end Apartheid in South Africa by defeating the rascist armies of same country.

This could not be popular for the Ku Klux Klan.

DocMercury

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docmercury
Member since Dec-29-01
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Jan-11-02, 07:29 AM (PST)

11. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #5

I react with absolutely no surprise that denizens of the "home of the slave and the land of the fee" are seduced by lies from Washington.

'tis the place where a whole division of cops with shoot first and ask questions later of a boy scout smoking a joint... and then cover up all the negative incriminatory data.

Its the American way.

DocMercury

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Esteban
Member since Sep-25-01
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Sep-25-01, 01:35 AM (PST)

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6. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #0

LAST EDITED ON Sep-25-01 AT 01:36 AM (PST)

CUBA PROVIDES SAFE HAVEN FOR:
MONTONEROS (Argentine).............TERRORISTS
TUPAMAROS (Peru)...................TERRORISTS
COLOMBIA'S ELN (Colombia)..........TERRORISTS
ETA (Spain)........................TERRORISTS
MACHETEROS (Puerto Rico)...........TERRORISTS
IRA (Ireland/Britain)..............TERRORISTS

CASTRO (Cuba)......PROVIDES(*) SAFE HAVEN FOR ALL OF THE ABOVE

(*) PROVIDES=PRESENT TENSE!!!

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docmercury
Member since Dec-29-01
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Dec-29-01, 01:02 PM (PST)

8. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #0

Cuba is the only nation on Earth which has not been enslaved by United States propaganda for the great god of GREED!

Usury and Credit Slavery MUST end.

..before the price of socio-environmental destruction sees the extinction of this species.

I do not and will not believe a single word from US spin doctors.
Self serving LIARS all!

(and they dare to call themselves Christian!)

DocMercury

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ressan setnom

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Jan-10-02, 06:44 AM (PST)

10. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #8

Hey Doc if you a really a doctor, but you sound that it is right that the Amercians deserved being suckered punched. You do have a right to have an opinion even if it does suck. You propbably one of those "limo riding" activist who try to do the I hate Americans shtick because you are bored counting your trust account money.

Look Castro is an asshole in the worst human rights kind. I should know because I have Cuban people that I have help get asylum becuase of their fear of persecution from his government. It is too bad that you think that Americans will always put there spin on things. There are different views in the U.S., but when the chips are down we know how to unite.

To me you just sound like a spoiled rotten kid who did not get a pony for his birthday.

You are so lame.

Ressan

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DavidC

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Mar-06-02, 03:25 PM (PST)

12. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #8

Doc the mercury is affecting your brain, and the only thing spinning is your head. What are you talking about?. The only ensalaved people in the Americas are the Cubans in the island, they work in Spanish, Canadian, Italian and other foreign businesses that pay the Castro government in hard dollars for their work and Castro pays then 10% of that in pesos, (maybe $7 to $10 a month). The only aparthied system in the Americas excists in Cuba where Cubans can not enter the hotels, the restaurants or their own Varadero Beach because they are Cubans, but you could go!, Cuba is the only palce in the Americas where you are a criminal because you want to be free.
Now lets talk of propaganda, the only government that claims that it has never made a mistake or done anything wrong, who blames others for its failures and is always ready to criticize others is?. Come on mercury head take a guess, "CUBA" that's right, "CUBA", where in 42 years not one thing has gone wrong but where nothing works.
Oh wait I just took a hit of mercury, WAOOO MAN, Hey you know what, I'm starting to see things your way, hey man you might be right, Castro might be the smartest man alive, hey you know, he knows how many children will be born this week and how many will be doctors, teachers, jineteras etc, wao man, he knows when to cut the sugar cane, when to pick the coffee, when to fish, ##### man he even knows when to #####, he also knows what people want, how they should think and feel, what people should buy, what people should eat, he even knew I was going to write this, far out man. Hey!!! I know he is Tommy and the pinball machine we must follow him!. Fidel can you hear me, Fidel can you hear me?.
Man please grow up and take your place in society, if you really think Cuba is such a paradise then why when Mr Castaneda the Mexican ambassador made an innocent comment about their embassy doors in Havana, Cubans on the island took it literally and crashed the place, but wait, you probably think the Yankee propaganda made them do it, not the hunger, the lack of freedom, human rights, freedom of speech, brighter future and silly little things like that that we humans in your world can do without.
Bro, with all your right on talk, you and people like you ##### up this world for people like me.

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Lucinda

Member since Nov-30-01
10 posts, 1 feedbacks, 1 points

Mar-09-02, 01:56 PM (PST)

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13. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #12

Why do people always try to bring up Cubans not being able to use certain beaches and biuldings as an example of segregation. Tourism makes up 70% of Cuba's income. Obviously they are going to have to try and maintain the most popular tourist sites and facilities. What other pleasure could Fidel possibly be deriving from only allowing tourists to use these places??? What point is trying to be made in bringing this up??? I see it time and time again trying to be used as some sort of point.. but it makes NO SENSE.

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davidc

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Mar-14-02, 03:24 PM (PST)

14. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #13

Dear Lucinda.
Just think of yourself the citizen of a country that does not allow you to enjoy the best public places and where you can't enter buildings because it reserves them for non-citizens. Just little things like Living in Miami but not allowed on the beach, living in New York but not allowed to visit the Statue of Liberty or enjoy Central Park, living in Orlando but not allowed to enter Disney World, and not because you can't afford it, even with money you would not be be allowed simply because, say..., George W. Bush does not want you to, he is trying to maintain the most popular tourists site and facilities in tip top shape.
You used the word SEGREGATION, it means: 1)To separate or isolate from others. 2)To impose the separation (of a race or class) from the rest of society. it fits perfectly to Cubans on the island.
Would you put up with it?. Would you accept it?. Would you like to rise your children like that?.
Lucinda, the only reason we bring it up constantly is because no one seems to litsen or care, if it was happening anywhere else in the world it would not be tolerated, there would be news coverage and boycott in the place, but, what the hell is only Cubans, right?.
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I hope you read this and answer me, we need more communication

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Lucinda

Member since Nov-30-01
10 posts, 1 feedbacks, 1 points

Mar-17-02, 11:47 AM (PST)

17. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #14

DavidC,
Don't you ever stop to think.. "Hmm..why has Fidel had to resort to no longer allowing people into these places? Why has tourism become 70% of Cuba's income?" When you think of these questions.. the answer becomes obvious. If we didnt have the embargo agaisnt Cuba to begin with, then tourism wouldn't be so badly depended upon, therefore,none of this would have happened. Why don't you think of the CAUSE of the problem instead of blaming the person who is trying to fix it. And when I used the word "segregation" I was taking from the text of someone else's statement and I was in no way implying that I see this as segregation. --Lucinda--

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Dean

Guest

Mar-02-03, 09:42 AM (PST)

25. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #14

LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-03 AT 09:42 AM (PST) by ()

This type of thing happens tenfold across the world. Most people in the world have to deal with ANY form of dissent being censored or imprisonment for those things. Plenty of US allies do this totheir citizens. The difference? Cuba does this to benefit the people, and this type of infringement on personal rights, while I don't agree with it, has good merit and is not the worse infringement for a nation with such economic loss. It is a very good point againt Cuba, but it is important to also consider the reasons for this.
What it really boils down to is seeing a person get shot, then pointing out the person to your left who is pushing someone. There are much more important issues to be resolved before this, which involve much greater penalties if not taken care of.
"The just man will not compete with his like"
-Socrates (Plato)

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David C

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May-06-03, 09:06 PM (PST)

26. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #25

Dean, what the hell are you talking about. infringement of personal, economical, speech, religious and all other inherited human rights benefit the Cuban people? PLEEEASSSE!!!. you are either a fool, an idiot or as we cubans might say "TREMENDO COME ##### MI HERMANO" but at least you and I have the right to be and say what we want, mijo because this type of thing happens "tenfolds across the world" does not make it right, you should try living under those conditions.
Tell you what, why don't you work for me, give all your property and possesions, give me your body, mind and soul to control, all of your rights and let me control your and your children's future, come on Dean, after all I'm doing it for your benefit. Shoot it happens all across the world!!.

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MariaG

Guest

Mar-16-02, 01:56 PM (PST)

15. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #13

Dear Lucucinda, it makes no sense to you because you don't feel it, you don't have to put up with it.
Try living under those conditions, then you'l get the point and it might make sense.

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Enrique E.

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Mar-16-02, 02:19 PM (PST)

16. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #13

Lucinda where are you from?. Maybe if someone came and took from you, or took from all the people like you, or from everyone that comes from where you come from their right to go where they want in their own city, the right to enjoy thier own country, you might understand why.
What good is a cuban with no Cuba, an american with no USA, a canadian with no Canada, an italian with no Italy and so on and so on and so on.
It's hard for someone born in freedom to understand, unless, God forbid it happens to them.
It's also hard for us to say it over, and over,and over again and realize no one is litsening.
DavidC is right we must keep communicating, maybe we might get somebody to hear us and understand.

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Lucinda

Member since Nov-30-01
10 posts, 1 feedbacks, 1 points

Mar-17-02, 12:57 PM (PST)

18. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #16

Understand what? Your making it seem like the Cuban government stops the people from going to these places just for the hell of it.. I'm saying no .. there is a legitimate reason why they do it.. and they wouldnt have had to resort to that if it hadnt been for the damn embargo in the 1st place.

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DavidC

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Mar-18-02, 03:15 AM (PST)

19. "RE: Is Cuba a Rogue State or a Victim of U.S. Smear Tactics?"
In response to message #18

Lucinda the reason they are not allowed is because Castro does not want the cuban people to see how the rest of the world lives. There is nothing legitimate about it, just like it was not legitimate in South Africa or in the South (US).
He does not want them to see tourists eating while they starve, he does not want them to hear about the real world. there is no outside radio, no cable tv, and no outside print of ant kind. It's ovious you have not been there. I hope you go and stay away from the tourist areas, maybe then?.
The reason the embargo was put in place was as retaliation for all the property confiscated by Castro.
The embargo does not excist, Cuba can buy and does from anybody in the world, even the U.S. The reason she does not is because she is broke, all her money went to destabilize governments in Africa and in South America and fight guerrilla wars, What Cuba desperatly wants today is credit, the problem is she owes to everyone, but never pays, look it up, all this information is available.
You can also find information on pre Castro's Cuba, find health at "The World Health Organization Report 1953" , on Cuba's place in Cental and South America in the "United Nations World Statistics 1959" , find info on the per capita income and way of life in The "International Workers Union Report, Geneva.1958"
Also I recomend www.contactomagazine.com-- (a hispanic publication not cuban) they are running a piece on Cuba, title. "Cuba 100 Years After" it deals with the last 100 years of Cuba's history since it's indipendance from Spain. the site is not finished, it should be ready by May 20 which is Cuba's Independence Day. It covers all, the good, the bad and the ugly.
Lucinda the reason I used the word segregation is because you questioned the cubans that use it and as you can see it fits the situation.
Hope to hear from you again, plese look up the info on Cuba it's all available. let me know what you find.

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